Nutanix Weekly: Multiple Clouds vs. Multicloud: What’s the Difference and Why Does It Matter?

In the first installment of our What If You Could series, we defined hybrid multicloud and showed how Nutanix was the only vendor to make hybrid multicloud simple and cost-effective across on-premises and multiple public clouds. In this article, we take a deeper look into multiple cloud deployments—which often don’t equate to true multicloud—and why they can be a challenge. 

To survive in an increasingly competitive and shifting marketplace, organizations continue to look for ways to increase agility, scalability, and innovation with public and private cloud services. Today the cloud is a vital component of practically every business, regardless of industry and size. And when it comes to the cloud, the concept of “one-stop shop” doesn’t apply. 

Organizations are using multiple clouds to find the right balance between business and technical requirements and varying cloud services for their different workloads, so they can work as efficiently as possible. With the multiple cloud approach quickly becoming the de facto standard for modern enterprises, the term “multicloud” is often used to describe this approach, but that can be a bit of a misnomer. 

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Philip Sellers
Co-host: Harvey Green
Co-host: Jirah Cox
Co-host: Ben Rogers

Transcript

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Andy Whiteside: Welcome to Episode 78, host, Andy White said. I've got the crew back like it's a whole game

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Andy Whiteside: like I'm looking at an episode of muppets. I mean, I mean.

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Andy Whiteside: how's doing

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Andy Whiteside: today is twenty-seventh, 2023. I'll ask you guys a question, and I start talking again. Not give you a chance to answer. That's that's one way to get it done. We'll go around the Horn here. I'll start with the Phillip Sellers, who's on my left at least virtually. Philip. How's it going?

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Philip Sellers: Going? Good, Andy?

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Andy Whiteside: Hungover from Turkey?

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Philip Sellers: Well, you know I did take my required afternoon nap after my, my large plate of turkey. We had a nice fried turkey. So

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Philip Sellers: I took advantage of that.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, I slipped the whole day away because I got a feeling bug the night before. I didn't eat it with her

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Andy Whiteside: pretty bad. I'm gonna be in the doghouse forever for it. I don't get sick often, but when I do I ruin everybody else's holiday working out of a phone booth, I think.

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trying to.

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Jirah Cox: howdy had a good thanksgiving. We smoked our turkey  And to my knowledge no one has gotten sick yet.

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Andy Whiteside: It's good.

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Did you smoke it, or does someone else smoke it.

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Jirah Cox: I smoked it

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Andy Whiteside: my family had a smoke turkey, too. I'm not a smoker

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Jirah Cox: but I need to get into it because everybody. Everybody loves it. So I'm missing out. I think it. We've fried in the past. Love frying love smoking my wife is fine with anything that involves her getting the oven back all day. So

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Jirah Cox: that's the part, I promise is that is that our turkey will never go back in the oven.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, yeah, that's that's probably good. Good idea. Clean ups probably a little easier, too, for everybody. I think. Harvey Green, how are you? How's it going

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Harvey Green III: pretty good, pretty good government world by storm. Yes, absolutely

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Andy Whiteside: so, Harvey Ross.

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Jirah Cox: how'd you get your turkey? How'd you? How'd you click your turkey, Harvey?

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Harvey Green III: I did not cook it. I just ate it.

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Andy Whiteside: Those are the easiest ways to do so, Harvey. Then if you didn't do it then who did it.

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Harvey Green III: You know. The best part about

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Harvey Green III: that is, I actually don't even know it. It was there I ate it. I didn't have to worry about anything, and it was glorious

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Jirah Cox: turkey as a service.

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Andy Whiteside: So you know, it's customary to thank the person who cooked the turkey. But since you don't know who that was then you probably did not think the person who cooked the turkey.

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Harvey Green III: I think the person who was hosting the whose house I went to

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Andy Whiteside: that's probably all. All you gotta do Ben Rogers. Ben, how's it going?

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Ben Rogers: It's going well, Andy, how are you doing? I'm I'm doing pretty good. It's a Monday

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Andy Whiteside: after a holiday. But it was, I guess, slowing down towards the year, maybe kinda how the people expect much on the Monday after Thanksgiving. Maybe that's the answer.

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Ben Rogers: Well, I I'm in the Harvey bus, but I didn't know who baked our turkey. It was actually our niece, but I'm lucky because my wife has 3 sisters and a sister in law. So you get those 4 women together. You don't have to worry about dinner. They'll task out to the younger crowd. So we had our younger nieces involved this year. All I had to do was fix the banana pudding, which was real easy to do for me.

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Ben Rogers: and it was a great day man, so I had a great thanksgiving. But I'm along the hardy line.

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Ben Rogers: Let somebody else take care of it. I'll do the little bit you want me to do. But I'm glad that my wife has 3 sisters and a sister in law that love to do that holiday stuff so

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Ben Rogers: good Thanksgiving all around you use the word bank. Did you bake? Did somebody bake your time? I don't know. I don't know how they fixed it. I know it was good, I know it was juicy. I plenty of it, and II was lucky we were at my brother-in-law's. He has a nice wide screen TV that likes to do football, and I was lucky enough to hit his recliner with his little blanket, and I was out for about 2 or 3 h after I ate, so

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Ben Rogers: I was fat, dumb, and happy and sleepy, and really enjoyed myself. So

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Andy Whiteside: so I'm actually loving this topic. I didn't mean to do this, but it's kind of worked out. You got frieda turkey you got smoked the turkey you got bake or roast the turkey at the end of the day. You don't care, really, as long as you get good turkey right?

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Andy Whiteside: How does that apply to cloud computing and Newtonics in various forms of cloud. Do you care, as long as you get good

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Andy Whiteside: in implementing good infrastructure to run your workloads? Is it a similar conversation. I'm making this up. Am I stretching too far?

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Jirah Cox: No, honestly, if you didn't go there, Andy, I was going to to say, you know half our respondents that did eat turkey and and remain vertical for at least part of Thanksgiving Day. Did enjoy the turkey as a service outcome. But I was gonna point out that one of those was sound like it was a sole provider.

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Jirah Cox: and one was sort of a synergy of multiple providers, right? Which probably both delivered a fantastic outcome. But one might have needed a bit more coordination, let's say.

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Andy Whiteside: and I would highlight as this entire group. None of you did it the really what I would call old school way. Would you tie up an oven and you make a big mess in your house and potentially set off the smoke alarm you could have, and it would still probably been good turkey if you base it and keep it voice and all the good stuff. But it was new ways, and in some cases we didn't even know how it happened. It just happened.

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Harvey Green III: Yes, we have evolved and become smarter

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Ben Rogers: well, and and actually actually hard to outsourcing something new.

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Ben Rogers: Had these micro services work that weren't work? You had, you know, the 4 sisters that then kind of task out to other people of the family. Here's the individual task that you need. And then, as it came together, all these micro services really did give a complete dinner that that you know, a lot of people like that had different different palettes of food that they would want to enjoy, you know.

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Andy Whiteside: and then you extend that out to the you know the beets and the potatoes and the macaroni and cheese and the stuffing, I mean, did you? Did the host provide those in their own oven, or did they buy it from a store? Did it? Did they order? And it showed up through the greets. I mean, you don't know in some cases, as long as it was good. You didn't care

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Ben Rogers: exactly

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Andy Whiteside: alright for today from November sixteenth from mark Troy, our video re real, maybe. Multiple clouds versus multi cloud. What's the difference? And why does it matter? I think.

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Andy Whiteside: to that conversation.

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Jirah Cox: So we're gonna keep recording despite my best guess, we've lost all listeners now because we are professionals. Anybody who made it through that very stretch analogy. Thank you. We'll keep going.

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Andy Whiteside: Dara. You you're the one who brought these. We had 2 blogs, but this is when we decide to go with and forgetting the fact that we're post Thanksgiving. Why does this blog and what we're gonna cover here? Why did it matter? Why do you think it's relevant, and we speak about it.

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Jirah Cox: So it it it goes it to the heart of a lot of conversations we have with our customers. And gets. I'll try to keep it practical here, but it gets it. It works with being fairly philosophical

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Jirah Cox: around consuming cloud and outcomes and

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Jirah Cox: and the title here, right being multiple clouds versus multi cloud. What's the difference gets into? What does it mean to be? Multi cloud versus? What does it mean to be in multiple clouds. Right? And what does that? What does it? What's that meaning to you? To your customers, internally, to the organization?

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, been, are you having lots of conversations with people about this very topic.

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Ben Rogers: Well, so that what's interesting to me personally about this from talking to customers is what I find is that a lot? A lot of customers are in multi cloud

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Ben Rogers: and they're siloed. So they have a team that works on their Aws environment. They have a team that works on their azure environment. Of course the azure guys might know a little bit about aws, but what is bad is when you're looking at a management of that. And now you're having to as a manager, go. I've got this expert of aws, I got this expert of azure. I've got this expert of on Prem. I've got, you know, and it says

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Ben Rogers: where the multi cloud becomes a little bit of a problem for people, in my opinion, and what I've seen talking to customers is, it's not a uniform landscape, it's individual landscapes, and we haven't even gotten into the conversation about how do you look at cost. And how do you keep the vendors, you know, honest with their costs when you're silent like that. So you know, just looking at it from talking to customers. When I see multi cloud, or when I talk to them about hybrid

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Ben Rogers: cloud, multi-cloud multiple clouds, I see that most customers are running in a multiple cloud silo environment which has its own set of challenges and problems to deal with.

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Andy Whiteside: And and I'm thinking, you know, people listening are probably thinking cloud as in azure Aws. Gcp, but it could be private cloud. It could be Co. Low cloud. It could be many, many clouds that this conversation applies to not just

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Andy Whiteside: public cloud or not

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Jirah Cox: 100%. In fact, it really I would say it ought to be right like, if if your if your private environment is not already operating like a cloud.

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Jirah Cox: We've got good news for you there, right? But that would be, you know, but we also don't want that to become its own silo cloud.

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Andy Whiteside: and then the flip side. This is, you know, if you've bought into total, Pully Cloud, then okay, but you're probably missing opportunities to be more efficient, cost effective or control your own destiny, or a little bit of all the above.

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Andy Whiteside: Maybe Harvey Cloud multi-cloud versus multiple clouds is that relevant in your sled and fed government conversations?

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Harvey Green III: 100% you know it.

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Harvey Green III: We talk plenty with people about cloud and the the concept of why it makes sense to have things in multiple clouds but still have something like Ben was talking to that that overlays both, to not make things as complex as they have to be

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Harvey Green III: or as they could be, I should say

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Harvey Green III: and I mean that piece of it. II kinda like into, you know, you you wanna watch a movie. How do you go watch a movie? And some people will say, Well, I go to Netflix, or some people say I go to, you know I don't know Disney, plus, or I go to Hulu.

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Harvey Green III: You know your your multi cloud would be whatever device you're using to go to all of those it has that overlay to see into all of them and allow you to open it and go watch the movie. You wanna watch right? Which is like what you were saying. If you, I go to Netflix, the software delivery where it came from, and where I was sitting at that moment.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, that's almost irrelevant.

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Ben Rogers: What irritates me. I consume Netflix Hulu such and such. But if somebody says, I want you to watch this program.

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Ben Rogers: I have no way of searching all of those instances to go. Here's where it's at, and here's where the best price is. And so when you compare that to this, this, what we're talking about here, I'm sure there are it managers that are out there, going. Here's my workload. I'm looking for a way to figure out where's the best resource to put that workload? And what's that gonna look like from a cost perspective over longevity of time.

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Ben Rogers: So I like the idea that I've got services, you know, like the Netflix, the who lose the Yada Yada. But what I don't like is, if I

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Ben Rogers: want a resource. If I want a movie, I have to know where that's at, and that gets cumbersome in my life.

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Harvey Green III: But we'll talk about the one that the it managers can use in just a few minutes, and then afterwards I'll talk to you about one that you can use at home that will help you out to in getting it to where it's as easy as what Ben said, and as smart as what Ben said, isn't it? To to get it to where it's delivered as a ubiquitous service from somewhere you don't have to care about? And then the next steps gonna be

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Andy Whiteside: being able to at any moment in time, get it wherever you want, at the most cost, effective and operationally efficient way.

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Harvey Green III: Yes, 100%.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah. And and I think that one of the factors that that comes into play here is a lot of customers are in a places of being reluctantly multiple cloud.

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Philip Sellers: you know, through, you know.

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Philip Sellers: acquisition, you know. My opinion may have been use, Netflix, but then I've acquired a company that's so paramount plus. And now I'm having to deal with you know their state, and

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Philip Sellers: you know, and and bring it back to you know the library, and and bring it back to my standards. And so, you know, I think that's a big part of the conversation, too, is that even if you don't intend to be a multiple cloud consumer. There are many paths to get you there reluctantly.

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Andy Whiteside: unless you're living in a cave and have your own data center. And that's all you're ever going to use data centers, plural lots of optics or Capex, you're gonna be multi cloud, whether you like it or not.

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Andy Whiteside: It's it. You're gonna be multiple clouds, whether you like it or not. The question is, are you gonna have a multi cloud strategy within that

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Philip Sellers: yeah, 100% agree with that. Because you know, each one of these cloud providers has their own opinion of how to do things, and how things should run, and even how they name things which is maddening at times, as you come in new and fresh to

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Philip Sellers: to figure out what this service name has to do with the brand name they've given it.

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Andy Whiteside: I guess. One way. Look at those to kinda argue against what I just said you could buy into one vendors cloud solution, including their on prem, tie in piece.

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Ben Rogers: But at that point you're you're in and getting out. It's gonna be really hard. That's what they call locking. And you know, I mean in at that point you have your the. Your operational cost is dictated by the other company. You have no leverage, the bang against them, especially if you left Mike.

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Ben Rogers: where? Where it gets real interesting to me with this is in automation.

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Ben Rogers: you know, when you start buying into the automation platform with some of these cloud providers that really get you locked in as well. So you know again, multiple cloud versus multi cloud.

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Philip Sellers: Well, and then to add on to that. It's not just the automation and things. It's also around.

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Philip Sellers: you know, lost the thought. Sorry, we'll move on. Multiple clouds doesn't mean multi multi cloud which we've been talking around it for the last 10 min here. But I want you to kind of define it. Also. Do want to throw this out there for you and for the rest of the group things like, and I hate to bring this acronym up over and over your best world does but AI artificial intelligence

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Andy Whiteside: becomes much, much more doable, I think, unless you tell me it doesn't. When you get to a true multi cloud strategy versus trying to live within multiple clouds.

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Jirah Cox: No 100%. You're totally right, Andy. So to your point around you know, is picking one cloud an option perfectly valid option. Right then you're you've moved beyond Turkey as a service to fall on like turkey dinner as a service, right like whatever they want to offer, whatever they're charging. You're signed up for that in advance. Right? You're kind of. You're pretty committed to that point.

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Jirah Cox: But to your point. The benefit is is that when you know, I like to say that we help our customers become these cloud providers to their businesses right? Whether that involves full private cloud, private cloud, hybrid cloud

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Jirah Cox: or probably cloud all as one right like, if you work for let's say acne, we help you become the Acme Cloud provider, using all these various things. AI can be a huge drive, huge driver for that right cause. That's one of the most today, let's say, is record this in late 2023, one of those differentiated cloud offerings. Right? When I go to cloud a versus B versus CI get very, very different AI

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Jirah Cox: offerings and different kinds of apps might wanna use those very differently? So so then, even I did want to commit to one cloud provider. Now, I'm limiting my AI consumption options.

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Jirah Cox: Right? Which probably doesn't feel terribly cloudy right? So helping eliminate these silo that's in for that new development, right? To say nothing of

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Jirah Cox: what if the other Cloud Provider comes in with a better price? Price per pound price per vm. Price for whatever right? The more you locked in you are to Ben's point, the less I can go. Take advantage of that for the business and do my job as a technology governance professional for the business. Right? So migration multi cloud to your point. Yeah, I think, is 100% inevitability. Migration is inevitability, right? As applications move to where they're gonna run the best

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Jirah Cox: and move closer and closer to the data that powers them, and probably powers the business which changes over time

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Jirah Cox: right? So how do we help our customers stay, stay agile, right stay independent, may maintain that autonomy move easily to where it's cost effective and offer the best services within their cloud portfolio to their customers. The rest of the business

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Andy Whiteside: then, and will change and change in change.

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Andy Whiteside: you know, weekly daily changes, changes, changes constant. Yeah.

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Ben Rogers: Well, it also, I mean, let's look at this from an app development perspective. You know, 1 one client that we're talking to again, man there

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Ben Rogers: siloed. So they've got developers that know aws, developers know azure that's not sustainable over time. And they and they're starting to realize this. And so they're looking for more of, we need a de, an app developments infrastructure that everybody buys into, and then the cloud resource. It's just another leg, man, you know. It might. Does this run better in private versus public. If it does run better in public, or it needs to be in public.

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Ben Rogers: Which public is it? But from the app development they're developing it for the entire infrastructure structure, not just these silos that can only live in those certain cloud environments.

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Andy Whiteside: Philip, have we?

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Andy Whiteside: Let me have you do it? I think we've talked a a a tone about this. But give me one statement that defines the uniqueness between multiple cloud and multi cloud strategy.

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Philip Sellers: It's really around the management, the operational parts of how you use the cloud. Does it manage the same? Can you roll it up? Can you see it is. Do you have that ability to operate the same across all those different regions, locations, and providers?

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Andy Whiteside: II honestly agree with that in the next section, I'll talk about it. But but, Jair, if I were to say

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Andy Whiteside: that multiple clouds kinda just happens. Multi cloud is a strategy within. That is that fair?

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Jirah Cox: Yeah, I think I think you're totally right, like multi-cloud.

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Jirah Cox: Happens. For lots of reasons, by acquisition, by new applications, by

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Jirah Cox: lack of governance. Sometimes too much of the autonomy multi cloud is in is an intentional strategy, right? And a and a reigning end of the chaos.

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Ben Rogers: Yeah. Multi-cloud can happen. From all the reasons you said.

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Ben Rogers: multiple cloud can happen. Multi cloud has to be designed and thought out. And it's a platform and infrastructure.

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Jirah Cox: Yeah, as intentionality, governance.

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Andy Whiteside: No, I love it. I love that conversation, and and it comes up a lot when I meet with clients, but occasionally they will push back on. My, that's not a strategy, and they'll say that. You know, the workloads need to run on the native hyperscalers, because that's where they were born. It was, it was it was that's that's how they were.

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Andy Whiteside: They're most efficient that way, or that was the intention of how it was architected. Is that just like, not true? Like, is that? Is that a viable comeback to my comment that that's not a strategy that's just happening. Kind of thing.

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Jirah Cox: push back on that in terms of like native vms can be simpler the same way, only using one cloud certainly is simpler, but you pay for that in other ways, through like loss of agility. Loss of mobility,

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Jirah Cox: and so forth. Right? So so.

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Jirah Cox: Native vms are certainly simple performance. I think that's certainly debatable and

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Jirah Cox: and native and and like sort of born there. I mean, I think, yeah, you can trace virtual machines back to like you know, mainframes and Bsd jails if you go back far enough, right? So I don't think anyone really has a claim on that.

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Philip Sellers: Well, and and I think you're on the right track there, too. Virtual machines to me. Don't feel Cloud Native, that's not by definition. What you

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Philip Sellers: what you look at is cloud, native containerized applications, things like that that are scaled out, load balanced, tho those are more of your cloud native things. And so I think a lot of I as, and a lot of the folks that are pushing back on you, Andy, who who say that are are really thinking about cloud native. To begin with, they're they're actually talking about traditional virtual machines

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Philip Sellers: in a much more traditional run pattern run operation pattern.

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Jirah Cox: Sure, II agree with you there, Philippine, other than to say

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Jirah Cox: you're you're right. Most people would not say vms are caring about an OS right? As a differentiator is terribly cloudy in some ways, for, like true cloud native apps, you're right, but I also think there's very, very few companies that can live solely in a cloud. Native apps only world right? For most it departments right? The challenges. I have some new

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Jirah Cox: leading edge development that is totally, you know, container as as a service functions and so forth, and it has to live and interact with the rest of my ecosystem that is defined by virtual machines, and probably will be for a very long time. So you're you're right. I see that, too. Right? A lot of people sort of

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Jirah Cox: sort of may perhaps over, rotate and solve for one part of the stack, and let that influence the rest of the stack. Kind of like what Andy says he's hearing there compared to sort of, you know, taking a long, hard look at like what I really have to govern here.

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Philip Sellers: And and to add to that, that's why a lot of the big banks still have mainframes. I mean, you know, technology tech debt. It comes along with us. And you know, to just

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Philip Sellers: put a fine point on what you just said, Jayra. I mean, some of these old applications can't go away, and that's why, having a good infrastructure that's portable and transportable. It really works. I mean, this is one of the big talking points that I have. As people say. I'm going all in on cloud. I'm I'm like, what about that old client server application that runs on windows? 2,003 only.

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Philip Sellers: Still gotta support it still got it running. It's not compatible. So what do you do?

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Jirah Cox: Yeah, or or even customers that that are

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Jirah Cox: more to space of like. So like. But you know the cloud, we help our customers offer to the business. Right? Can be anything right? Private hybrid callo partner any flavor, right?

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Jirah Cox: But each of those has different strengths and weaknesses. Right? And so, like public cloud, 100% is agility right and on demand consumption and no forecasting required, and and everything as a service.

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Jirah Cox: If you're not deploying things or rebuilding things, or inventing things or writing things right, if you're just in the running

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Jirah Cox: part of the equation.

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Jirah Cox: then those are the things you need to optimize for right? Someone actually probably cares about lower cost operating model versus lower time to deploy.

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Andy Whiteside: So, Harvey, I think Ben and Philip both mentioned

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Andy Whiteside: minimal measurement for a strategy is whether you have a single place to go and manage. This is is that single control plane.

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Andy Whiteside: the simplest way to measure whether you have multi cloud versus multiple clouds.

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Harvey Green III: I mean, II do think that's a very.

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Harvey Green III: a very simple measurement. One of the other ones that I was kind of sitting here thinking about to during that last conversation is.

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Harvey Green III: you know, Bo. Multiple Cloud would be II can see everything, you know that is hosted here, and I can see everything that's hosted here, and like all the way down the stack

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Harvey Green III: because all of these cloud providers have, you know, different models and different things. That

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Harvey Green III: they offer different services they offer. Multi-cloud would be, I can see all of them at the same time.

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Harvey Green III: And I think that's that's a much, much bigger. Ask so yes, I can manage them all at one time is great, and that's that's the

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Harvey Green III: great first initial measurement there. But then being able to to to see and access from from one place for the whole the whole way through.

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Harvey Green III: That that goes beyond just that first single measurement there.

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Andy Whiteside: So, Jarra, when you're meeting with clients, is this idea that they have a single place to go, measure and maintain the environment is that that's the number. One thing they gravitate towards will start talking about. True multi cloud strategy.

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Jirah Cox: See, everything is high up there. Measure. Everything is high up there. The one of the hottest button items that comes up in my conversations is is the cost governance right? The I wanna place something where I get them where my dollar searches the furthest. Where's that right? That that into intelligent cost governance for placement is huge.

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Ben Rogers: Ben, your conversations with clients come back to these 3 things, cost management efficiency and complexity. Yeah, there's a fourth one there and Jayra. I want you to keep me between the lines here, but there's a fourth one I would love to add here this performance, man, a lot of times when you go to

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Ben Rogers: a multi cloud environment, you're gonna get a higher performance, one because the I as a service. But 2, you have, you know where you pick your destiny of where you want this to go. And so I would put a fourth point. There is a lot of conversations I had. They need the performance that native clouds not getting them. They're not getting the performance out of the vms that they want, or if they do try to press the button to get the performance they want.

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Ben Rogers: This cost goes sky high. So manage cost. I love that gyro. I was. Gonna say, that man the cost governance of all this, but also the performance gains. You get out of controlling your own destiny with a platform like mechanics.

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Jirah Cox: Yeah, I fully agree. I mean, in some ways it's a

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Jirah Cox: my. My mind goes back to all the things that all of us help help to solve. Customer challenges in the cut, in the scope of like one data center, you know 4 walls, right? We always would have design standards and patterns. We try to follow and adhere to. And then for the right justification, the right workload. I need XI need Y, we can deviate and say, Okay, higher performance, or a different kind of size or evolution. There, it's that same sort of like, let's say it's good to have standards and good to have trends

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Jirah Cox: and design patterns, but also be able to say yes to the business when we have exceptions and the weird shaped things. It's just that same sort of data center, thinking blown up to planet size scale.

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Andy Whiteside: The next section of the article talks about with Newtonics. You can have hybrid multi cloud

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Andy Whiteside: increased efficiency.

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Andy Whiteside: Philip, what? What have we not covered about the concept of increased efficiency with through multi cloud and operations?

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Philip Sellers: Yeah, I mean, it's it's really around, you know, the fact that it's the same software stack. So it's the same management, and it can unify you. You've got all of the things that have been orchestrated

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Philip Sellers: that you can expect on an on premises. Newtonics cluster that you get inside of the cloud as well. You know. It's the one click upgrades. It's it's the quick time to value. You know. II think

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Philip Sellers: the only thing that we we often run into is kind of what does the hyperscaler provide us as far as hardware. And you know that that's still a very real constraint sometimes with

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Philip Sellers: one particular

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Philip Sellers: cloud in particular. So you know, we? We do run into some things there where it's it's hard to fit things in. But you know, that's

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Philip Sellers: that's the only thing. And so that's where you can go to Colo. You can do to manage service. You can do other things if if you don't necessarily fit in that particular hyper

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hyperscaler. So

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Philip Sellers: it. It is really around, you know, just bringing the management altogether. It's all prism at the end of the day

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Jirah Cox: to your point, Philip, when you, when you look at it that way.

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Jirah Cox: you're really not adding complexity. Nor are you compromising in the cloud like outcomes and operating model that you offer back to the business, right to your point when you're when you're solving problem that way.

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Philip Sellers: Yeah. And you know you probably are tired of hearing this. I know Gyrus heard it a lot from me, but you know it's a platform play and that's that's what I love to to talk about is, you know you've got all of these other services that run on top of the Neutanics platform, and you know, for that cloud native customer that is doing containers. You've got Kubernetes services to go alongside of those virtual machines and all those odd cases and those client server applications that you're

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Philip Sellers: dragging along, kicking and screaming. So yeah, it is not a one size

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Philip Sellers: dictated T-shirt size that you have to choose from. You can bring it. And right size. And I think that's another increase in efficiency. You get to right size it you don't end up with. You know, the article mentions microwaved. If our listeners aren't sure what micro waste is. It's this idea of having to go up to a larger Vm.

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Philip Sellers: Because of the T-shirt sizing in the Cloud provider. And you're not able to actually choose the resources you need, and so that ends up inflating your costs.

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Ben Rogers: I mean one thing I want to add here, that's not mentioned in the article. But man labor. This is going to make your team's efficiency just gains because they're not gonna have to know all these different platforms. They're not gonna have to be worried and have visibility. And all these different platforms. You're gonna sit them under a unified pane of glass, and they're gonna be able to basically do everything inside of the of the management platform, regardless of location, regardless of silo. You know all these things we talked about and

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Ben Rogers: or the company, you know, getting employees retaining employees. This is a huge benefit, you know, and so we've seen companies sometimes looking at this. We can't keep up with all of this, and our employees can't keep up with it. Give us something that everybody can learn, and be on the same path as we, you know, develop this

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Andy Whiteside: so probably without being going without being said. But, Jira, maintain workload portability. We've talked about that a little bit. From maybe the aspect news talking about as far as the workload and the continued education, but also the vendor lock in piece anything else to add on workload portability.

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Jirah Cox: The the portability itself, I think, is pretty apparent, but the things that saves you sometimes go a bit under some right. So like doing it without retooling. We're doing without refactoring, doing, without retraining you know, without tweaking the workload at all right is is that's where the real, you know, when takes your sales is th that then gets easy

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Jirah Cox: for for the business, easy for the team to then go pull off right. This is no longer a science project. This is simple kind of a standard, you know.

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Jirah Cox: Move the app

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Philip Sellers: well, and I'm gonna extend it another step, too. So maybe not moving between clouds, but maybe just a generational hardware upgrade like Aws originally came out with the I 3 metal. Now it's an I 4 metal. Guess what? You can order that up and move your workloads. And now you're on the latest and greatest. So I think we're gonna see this also help from generational upgrades, because we're still kind of early in this. I mean.

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Philip Sellers: the solutions haven't been out long enough for us to go through intel chip refreshes and hardware generation refreshes, but it's gonna help us there as well.

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Ben Rogers: Well, and I wanna brag on new tanics here for a minute or for a minute when it says workload portability. You're doing that with a single license. So you buy the license from us, and that can go in any resource that you want it to. And II think that that's a differentiator to our competitors. And so when I look at workload portability, yeah, the technical things are great. But if I'm looking at the bottom line, and how I

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Ben Rogers: budget for this. Now, I maintain this, the sustainability of this over time having one license to deal with makes me feel good, because I know it will go anywhere I needed to go when I needed to go there.

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Nope.

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Andy Whiteside:  Then you want to take this next one accelerate transformation initiatives. I think that goes back to what we were just talking about, but certainly not limited to

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Ben Rogers: well, I mean for me. I just look at again a conversation I'm having with a client on their development process, and how they really want to look at multi cloud to flatten out that process. So not only, you know, is it am I

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Ben Rogers: removing the silos, but am I able to reduce my time to market? You know they've got this just in time. Approach. It's, you know. Am I able to move with the agility and as fast as market will will need me to, or that I'm allowed to. And again, just flattening out. This is gonna increase your time and development. It's gonna ease at time. Development is gonna ease, managing the labor force and time and development. And again.

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Ben Rogers: we'll talk about this in the next end. We're looking at cost across all these silos. If you're a manager if you're in multiple clouds. That is difficult to do, if possible. In my opinion.

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Andy Whiteside: probably all these things apply to your government customers.

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Harvey Green III: They do you know ultimately that as Ben was just speaking to, you know, you want to have

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Harvey Green III: the quickest way to get from. We need to do this to. Okay, we've done this

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Harvey Green III: and a lot of times, you know, from the the government sector. They they do need those quick events. They're.

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Harvey Green III: you know either something wasn't planned or something happened that wasn't planned.

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Harvey Green III: You know, downtime things like that just being able to be nimble. And, you know, move from one place to the other. Makes a huge difference when you're hosting something especially out to you know, potentially an entire State.

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Andy Whiteside: yeah, or an entire States with constituents, and I asked that because it wasn't that long ago that you know, Sled said they were talking about never going to the cloud. Now they all seem to be

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Andy Whiteside: running as fast or faster than everybody else to it.

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Harvey Green III: Yes, they, you know. Ha! Definitely plenty of additional security measures much more stringent on governance and things like that. But

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Harvey Green III: yeah, I mean, ultimately, lots of people are, you know, doing what they can to

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Ben Rogers: make it so that they have a platform that they can make things happen on quickly. And as being point out earlier, you know, with without forecasting. Yeah.

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Ben Rogers: do you also think that lack of labor force has something to do with government looking more at cloud services because the labor force they need to manage those data. Centers are no longer there or being phased out, or I mean III don't know. But I've had another colleague that has mentioned this to me, and

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Ben Rogers: you making that comment right there just has me. Curious man, what are you seeing on that end of it?

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Harvey Green III: So that that is an easy yes.

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Harvey Green III: you know a a lot of times, and we we see it a lot in the the smaller governments or the ones that don't have, you know, a very big recruiting department, or, you know, able to go and pay what private sector is paying for some of these administrators. There's sometimes a talent gap. That's not getting addressed very quickly or very easily.

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Harvey Green III: Because it's it's hard to get people who are knowledgeable and who, you know in the private sector can command a a certain amount of money or a certain amount of, you know, benefits for other things, whatever it is

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Harvey Green III: maybe they're not at the location, you know something that simple

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Harvey Green III: but just making it so that they're able to still make ends meet, because I mean, ultimately.

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Harvey Green III: like, you still need to use your water. The potholes still need to be filled, like all of those normal things still have to happen. And they can't stop, because oh, we couldn't find, you know an it. Administrator. Other things have to

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Harvey Green III: take place. Take that place.

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Ben Rogers: That's interesting. Thank you for answering that for me, cause I wondered what he said that today I was like that set. That that would be, you know, ashamed if that was the case. But that is the reality. And to the sellers that listen to these podcasts and that's motivation to hit the street, talk to your customers about man, are you finally, are you having trouble keeping that infrastructure running? And could the cloud help you in those areas?

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Andy Whiteside: Nope.

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Andy Whiteside: so I think part of the argument at 1 point, for government not going to the cloud was the security piece. Jarra, do you think some of them have realized that they can be more secure in the cloud, and they could in that brick and mortar data center they've been protecting or we're protecting

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Jirah Cox: I think I think it's the security benefit is when you can enjoy across the entire enterprise, right? So doesn't necessarily tilt for or against. But it's a benefit that that we think really all work should build, and to be entitled to, no matter where the customer chooses to run them right, that ability to have.

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Jirah Cox: you know. You know, ransomware detection. Yeah. Incident roll back to previous good states. You know, platform being built with security in mind at every layer. Right? You know. Hard. No, the box. And then even more controls available to customers that really wanna go to the end degree. That's that does is just table 6.

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Ben Rogers: Yeah, well, and that's

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and

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Ben Rogers: this is going to be a real, interesting conversation when you start getting companies that have to deal with data, governance and locality

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Ben Rogers: and how that's managed. And multiple clouds gonna be a big challenge when you've got a global company. And they've gotta keep data in certain geographic regions. Multi cloud will make that much more easier. And I think that's where you're really gonna start to see new tanics shine, because at the base of our platform. We're managing the data. So we know where those zeros and ones are being generated, where they're being house or we're being restored. What you're gonna see out of this is, you know, a collection of

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Ben Rogers: security utilities that will look at things like, you know, where is the data setting is, it's supposed to sit. There is there governance around this. And so again, multiple cloud environments are gonna make that and almost impossible to do. And that's where Newtonics is really driving the platform of being able to be a leader in that space.

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Ben Rogers: Jarrah, I hope I spoke correctly there, but I know I've talked to some of our leadership, and they go big picture years down the road. This is where we're really gonna start to ramp up, you know, as far as our platform, and and where people are, gonna see the goodness out of new tanics. Long term

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Jirah Cox: spot on man. No notes.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, and I think maybe you said this, how you didn't. But the idea! You're gonna know where it is, where it's been all this time, too, and and some of the phones, some of the actual ones and zeros where they where they've been all time.

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Ben Rogers: Exactly

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Andy Whiteside: I not to leave this one but the the security, and then the been mentioned, the the the workforce, and then honestly, and Harvey going back to the Gov. And this applies to all industries. Really, when they started staring into the face of that next capital expenditure that speed up their direction towards Cloud

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Harvey Green III: versus. Yeah, that I mean honestly, that does. And you know UN the unfortunate events of, you know, rent somewhere, and viruses and malware that also, speed sped that up.

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Harvey Green III: too, because ultimately, you know, you.

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Harvey Green III: you get to the point where you realize these these platform providers.

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Harvey Green III: It is not in their best interest for anybody on their on the platform they're providing to get

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Harvey Green III: hacked or have some kind of event happen. And so they have an army basically built

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Harvey Green III: of people who are making sure that things are secured and taken care of. And ultimately, that's an army that local government doesn't have at the, you know, the city level, the county level to state level. They just don't have that same amount of resource, the same amount of resources available to them in terms of people or process. Or you know, software to help make it as secure in the same way.

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Harvey Green III: And then you apply that conversation to the idea. You need to be able to have redundancy in everything you just talked about. Now.

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Andy Whiteside: multi, now a sudden cloud makes sense, and to do that right, a multi cloud strategy that includes at least one other place for this stuff to be available.

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Harvey Green III: Yeah, absolutely

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Andy Whiteside: disaster recovery piece that makes up the multi cloud strategy.

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Jirah Cox: Just that. It makes it makes these set of things easy for our customers. Whether that's a planned for or or a realized need. Let's say, that realization, you know can hit pretty hard around. Oh, wait my my applications in any kind of cloud environment, right? Whether that's private cloud, hyper cloud multi cloud

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Jirah Cox: needs needs desk recovery needs business continuity. Right? Just cause. I moved it into someone else's data center doesn't mean that no longer needs dr, so that ability to say, well, okay, great. If I need that, how do I easily add? Dr.

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Jirah Cox: To protect my workloads? Well, that's of course. That's built in right with our with our platform. So then you can go get that and add that anywhere you wanted to right with the partner in another cloud environment. And then ensuring that business continuity right? So that so that the way that my, as we've said here before, constrained, you know staff can then recover the application to the business that really matters right. And then, you know, we've well, we've all been in the room here. That's recovery to public cloud using Cloud, Sdr.

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Jirah Cox: Commonly investigated as a as a first use case, right for for cloud. Right? I'll keep the apps, but you keep my backup copies of them, and I'll use you if I need you.

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Andy Whiteside: And is it I don't know if you guys have enough experience on the the vendor side, on on the on the reseller partner side, we we see that happen, and when that business continuity disaster, recovery kicks in. Now they go into the cloud for that super, but they don't seem to ever come out once they get there and experience it.

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Andy Whiteside: they never come back.

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Jirah Cox: Sure, I mean, things solve problems for businesses tend to get very sticky.

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Ben Rogers: Alright, Andy, I'll I'll make a comment here just based on customer experience. Me being a customer as well. You need something that's testable. You can't have a Dr. Plan without testing it. Testing it is not just backing up. And you know, saying the backup was sex successful. So you need to be able to test your backup plan and be able to. You know, cocoon it if you need to run it on the Dr. Side.

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Ben Rogers: You need something that's simple. I mean, I've seen a lot of companies that will get their backups to the cloud, but when it comes to time to recover those or actually use them in a disaster. They haven't thought through all the networking Yada Yada Yada, and it needs to be flexible man, because Dr's don't come all in the same package, you know, you might have different levels of Dr. That makes you ha have to man implement, you know, different business continuity plans. So again, just wrapping around this man, new tanks will make it simple.

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Ben Rogers: flexible, and testable and repeatable.

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Andy Whiteside: Right?

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah. So so they just kinda wrap this up on that. But it's really what we're talking about, right? So just simplified cost effective. Controllable. What? What words am I missing their driver. That really helps somebody understand what this multi cloud strategy versus multiple clouds means to an organization

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Jirah Cox: automatable

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Jirah Cox: universal experience, right? So that you know, it's not similar. It's identical, right? No matter where I wanna put it. That that's where my team really gets that that force magnification effect, or that that pressure off their back to go learn yet another silo. Right? Because it's not another silo.

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Andy Whiteside: Harvey, throw in another one. What are we missing? What? What have we not sit here? And I mean

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Harvey Green III: visibility.

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Harvey Green III: We we talk a bit about. You know how to manage it. You know, I talked a bit about being able to see everything.

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Harvey Green III: And you know, Jyra hit on cost governance, being able to actually see how much it costs me before, during and after I've deployed it.

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Harvey Green III: Just visibility and and the be able to be able also to take that visibility, not

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Harvey Green III: just seeing, you know the before I do it. Now that I've done it. but the after I've done it, and then take that. The next step to the

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Harvey Green III: subscribe to reports or have it be

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Harvey Green III: set up so that when you get audited you can just say, Hey, here's the data you're looking for, because everything is just there. That that makes the biggest difference.

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Harvey Green III: Compared to trying to go and let me go. Look at this one. Let me go look at this one. Let me go. Look at this one and try to pull all of that data. It's already there for you in a consumable format.

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Andy Whiteside: Okay, so consumable was one of the worst

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Andy Whiteside: for sure. Yes. and then, Philip, your turn, what? What is

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Andy Whiteside: other word that describes what we can do by moving to this multi multi-class strategy via new tanks.

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Philip Sellers: I I'm gonna go with common. It is common, it is the same. And so you you have the ability to operate the same everywhere.

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Philip Sellers: I think there's huge huge benefits to not having to change how you work. You know, cloud.

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Philip Sellers: hybrid cloud.

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Philip Sellers: You have these constructs of every different provider. And

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Philip Sellers: you know all of this stuff that goes with around with managing cloud doesn't necessarily add a lot of value to the business or to it.

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Philip Sellers: But you have to adopt those constructs to work in their world. With a solution like mechanics. You don't have to make those compromises.

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Philip Sellers: and you can still get the same results.

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Andy Whiteside: Here's what I find interesting about talking about. That is all true, and you can get out of a cloud vendor or cloud vendor or cloud vendor. But you've got to go all in that cloud vendor to get all the things you're just talking about. Or you have this, have this ubiquitous piece of software like New Tenx, it goes in between all them, plus maybe a private data center plus maybe a Co load data center. If you want to get all those things you guys are talking about out of your multi cloud strategy.

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Harvey Green III: And and then the flexibility later to change as things develop. That's that's the big, the other big one for me. Yeah, as things develop is important because that could be cost could be the change in the pricing schedule of the Cloud Provider. It could be the technology could be that AI technology, that next leap

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Philip Sellers: that you need to be

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Philip Sellers: using and have your data near. Yeah, all those things are factors that come into where you need to run your workload.

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Ben Rogers: So I'm gonna I'm gonna go off on something, Phillip said. Earlier. Man, it could be. You know, the business is growing. So my word that needs to be in this list is repeatable. So you know, if you're having to grow your business, this is gonna give you a way that you know, every single site is the same. Every single, every single resource you're using is being used and consume the same. And to Harvey's comment, visibility we're gonna give it, be able to give you visibility across that whole

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Ben Rogers: platform. So you're really gonna know what you're doing from a business perspective.

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Andy Whiteside: Alright, let's try. You've heard all this. You've had your own pieces of it up to now, what? What's the word that brings all of this multi cloud together? It's okay. If you've already said it won't put you on spot here. But is there? Is there a word we're missing?

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Jirah Cox: No, I'm gonna go for delightful right? Like the platform, you know. It's it's trite. But like the platform, we've always designed to be. Something that drives customer satisfaction right? Like people enjoy using it. People enjoy working with our. So our support teams when you need to. You know, it's it's it's gotta you know. It's gotta pay for self. Tco has to be right, capability has to be right. Technology has to be right.

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Jirah Cox: But at the end of the day you know better living through better software.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah. Okay, well, that's a big part of it, for sure. to be able to do all that and have happy.

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Andy Whiteside: It users and consumers.

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Andy Whiteside: That's factor that has to be factored in element has to be factored in.

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Ben Rogers: and you gotta you gotta bring in some music with. He says that like the song afternoon Delight, that would be just classic man

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Andy Whiteside: I wake up to all the day, whatever that is, every day. I only remember the name of, so I guess whatever it is, and whoever things at this point. But yes, I mean, you gotta yeah. You gotta. You gotta make it frame it all up good and having the technology that does what we've talked about. Here is a big piece of that. And then the company doing it with

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Andy Whiteside: with the end user or systems admin enablement in mind. Yeah.

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Jirah Cox: we've all been there, right? We've all we've all been the it guy in a past job, who's been like, yeah, this is fine.

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Jirah Cox: but I'm ready for a different bag of cats to go wrestle right. I'm gonna leave this one for somebody else to pick up. You know. And as we talk about even on this call, right, all the different aspects of like work. workforce constraints right like

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Jirah Cox: preservation of your team, empowering them, letting them do more often. Of course, we're all told to do more with less. That's very, very meaningful.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: alright, John. Well, I appreciate you joining me on a Monday to talk about multi cloud versus multiple clouds. And you know, without a doubt that's where your tanics is focused.

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Andy Whiteside: and then I'll I'll have other pieces. I'll say a word that actually, you guys didn't say but as you talk about new teams, you can't help but say it, and that is multi cloud platform.

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Andy Whiteside: because it's more than just the execution of the

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Andy Whiteside: You know the cloud strategy I as it's the bringing the platform together. It's multi cloud versus. Just

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Andy Whiteside: you know the the Ayaz piece of multiple plugs.

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Jirah Cox: We can play the tape back. I'm gonna give Philip full marks for actually, I think he did say platform so.

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Ben Rogers: Andy, you and I have talked about this for a while. You. It irritated you for a while, when people would say, cloud and global everything in the cloud, you really go. It's clouds. This is getting it back to that cloud idea. We're gonna build you a cloud that consist of wherever you need your workload to be. So in my mind, I don't think of it as azure. Aws, I kind of go back to the Citrix days. It's a resource location.

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Andy Whiteside: Where do you need the workload? What resource location do you need these workloads to? Brian. Yeah, I'm I'm still challenged by that. Not only do I get challenges, not cloud, it's clouds. And specifically, and people say, cloud, they mean public cloud. They're not even taking into consideration different types of clouds. But I just let slide most of these days.

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Ben Rogers: And and my last comment is that for customers, you know, this sounds like a difficult conversation, but it really becomes an easy conversation once you look at the platform because we remove a lot of that underlying complexity. And so, you know, the most difficult conversation is

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Ben Rogers: is getting people to believe that it is this simple, but once they start to test, drive, or look at. You know our demos, and then start to really see that. Oh, I can move vms from resource, location, resource, location. Have IP addresses live in both. I mean they it. It starts to open up their mind up. I can have a platform that has these different legs, and I don't have to worry about those legs, and I can be cost competitive across those legs.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, then, I gotta run. But this has been good. And I appreciate your time.

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Andy Whiteside: Thanks, guys. Have a good good week.

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Thanks, Andy.